~ Mind on Marriage ~
Despite the Vision that I have for my blog, I have decided to spend some time articulating summaries of conversations and thoughts that I've been having about marriage for the past few weeks. The individuals with whom (or about) I have had discussions, and those discussions in and of themselves, span a variation that provides interesting blog fodder outside of my own commentary. ...
I have never been on of "those people" who has ever wanted to get married. I haven't always been particularly opposed to marriage, but never once have I dreamed of walking down the aisle or living happily ever after. My apathy towards marriage may have roots in the fact that I wasn't raised with a glorified perspective on marriage. My parents were married at City Hall with two witnesses and, as far as my knowledge goes, had no pomp and ceremony, not even the snapping of a photograph. I have spent the majority of my life not giving the concept of marriage much thought. And never in my entire life, when I envisioned my future, did that "future" contain a wedding ring, not even as an afterthought.
So then there's me being thrown into the concept that I am an adult. And while I have embraced all of my adultish responsibilities with joy and pride, I still choke on my cereal when my peers announce their engagement. My initial reaction being, "But you're so young...you've got the rest of your life ahead of you." That's me...noncommittal. As I was discussing with Exhibit B, I guess there is some logic to marriage if you have no intention of dumping your partner and you want to get some nifty financial discounts...you know, playing the system. But my gut still rejects the idea of being legally bound to another person.
Which brings me to my lengthy discussion yesterday with Exhibit C who detailed all of the ways in which she was completely screwed over in her divorce. Unknown to her until the divorce, her ex-husband had over $44,000 in credit card debt (the monthly interest alone was over $1,200) and because they were married, she was responsible for that debt, which she paid off by liquidating her retirement funds. She reminded me of the necessity to always take care of oneself...numero uno. Which is obvious, but under the guise of a relationship, it is possible to loose sight of that.
So, money. It seems to be an important ingredient in marriage and also factors into all relationships outside of marriage. Exhibit B wanting to get married to save money, Exhibit C losing all of her money because she was married. And me...even though I have no legal ties with my boyfriend, Exhibit E, I regularly have anxiety when I worry about his financial woes. But as he indicated, it really isn't my business. Several months ago, my Unnamed Friend Amy provided me with some wisdom that I would like to share: "Money seems to be one of the things that couples tend to argue about the most." Let us pause to reflect in the sagacity of that thought...
So, money. Aside from the wanting to have a nuclear family thing, the wanting to visit your partner in the hospital thing, and stuff of that nature, marriage seems to be very much a financial arrangement between two people and the State. With it there are financial perks and responsibilities. Even if a couple has seperate bank accounts, the financial link is present. I know couples who launch into horrible arguments about whether to buy organic tomatoes versus their cheaper non-organic counterpart. If that kind of argument can arise from such a "small" matter, what's going to happen when something big comes up?
This is not to say that I don't tear up every time that I attend a friend's wedding or that I don't think it would be nice to "have someone to come home to". The fact of the matter is that my Unnamed Boyfriend's point about the need for independence is right. Presently, I feel it is essential to maintain my own identity with the advent of what has become known as "Joshifer." Are you aware, for example, that when we receive invitations to parties, that those invitations frequently inventory us as one unit? While it is true that we spend a good amount of time together, that we are connected in more ways than one (most publicly evidenced with the tandem bicycle), and that we are users of the term "we", I feel that if there was some piece of paper that legally bound us my claustrophobia would rear its ugly head.
Then there are all of my happily married friends who, aside from their nice piece of jewelry and their use of the term "spouse", haven't warped into these married monsters who try to kill each other for the insurance money. This forces me to wonder why I'm having such a cow about this.
Last night I stayed up late filling out the forms to begin investing for my retirement. While I have never had dreams of my wedding day, I have certainly always envisioned a future ending with a nice retirement. Until that time when I make more money, my 403(b) is going to short me about $65 a month. This is $65 which might otherwise go towards "Joshifer" fun, but considering the importance of numero uno and how my parents instilled in me the importance of financial responsibility, I felt good and independent getting this done.
I'd prefer to be known as Exhibit O-yeah!
Posted by: Anonymous | June 23, 2006 9:55 AM
Jeez... I hope I'm part of one of those couples in Exhibit G. Though money is a concern (esp. in a community-property state), I don't think it holds the great honor of being the pinnacle of the marriage pyramid of worries. I also don't think that marriage is for everyone, esp those that aren't into it. So there.
BTW, if Ben ever asks you when Josh and you are going to "tie-the-knot", please know that it is a joke. Sometimes he has a hard time making things sound jokey, and instead can be a little annoying.
Posted by: Devlyn | June 26, 2006 12:03 PM
Sorry for the second comment, but I forgot to add this into the first:
The whole point is that it's really no one's business but your own. So there. Again.
Posted by: Devlyn | June 26, 2006 12:07 PM
hi.
as part of exhibit D i would like to say that when i was little i did dream of getting married (in the salt lake city temple no less!) but that might be because i went to the LDS church until i was ten and was around my heavily LDS family in heavily LDS pocatello, idaho.
as i got older i was more or less against marriage for a number of reasons, some as simple as how i never cease to get irritated with the whole concept of female last name change to the more complex problems, many of which i learned about by living through my parents divorce. i figured that i don't need a ceremony and a piece of paper to be true to the person i love. and, i generally accepted that i probably would never have the option of actually marrying the person i loved...even if i wanted to. maybe something like marriage, but not the exact same thing. so, you know, i got over it in more ways then one.
now i live somewhere where i can have the exact same piece of paper as everyone else. i also know that my unnamed boyfriend and myself are not going to be splitting up. and i want that paper. so why not?
our relationship will not change whatsoever, because our relationship was not formed under the guise that we could even get married...we formed a bond without marriage looming in the horizon… unlike many different sex couples. so yeah, this marriage is for the piece of paper. and maybe the gifts. And a big party with friends.
Posted by: zach | June 26, 2006 12:29 PM
Oh, of course you and Ben are members of the "happily married" who reinforce all of the good arguments for marriage. And of course, I support and am thrilled about your impending wedding, Zach. My impetus for this post was not to slam any one else's decision, but rather to articulate how it made me feel (since, you know, marriage and the offer of have been such an important factor in my life, or not) and also how I may have felt when being pressured to get married (to finally be a respectable woman) by my coworker whose business it is not.
Posted by: jennifer | June 27, 2006 10:03 AM
OK, so I'd like to comment on this whole financial aspects thing and whatever woman that was who said that she automatically owed 44,000 upon her divorce.
Actually, I've been reading a lot about this and just because your spouse runs out and charges up a credit card, doesn't necessarily mean that you are liable for it, especially if it was unbeknownst to you, and you didn't benefit from it. Its easy for property incurred by one spouse to be considered common property if it goes to the benefit of the "family", ie. one person purchases something for the children. Also, debts and property incurred before the marriage are not the property of the marriage.
But it can often be proven that some retarded spouse who bought himself 20 designer watches without telling the other spouse, doesn't make the other automatically responsible. I have read however, that it is prudent to keep separate names on credit cards, because if it is a joint account, then you are automatically liable.
But on this note, I'd like to also mention something else. I think that there are a lot of retarded people in the world, and they do a lot of retarded things. naturally these people would have retarded marriages and divorces. however, if one is not retarded, then it is by the same token perfectly possible to have a non-retarded marriage.
Posted by: Elizabeth | July 6, 2006 8:39 AM
Different states have different laws on marriage. Besides what happened with the woman who had to pay her husband's $44,000 debts was that he was a big asshole and took out credit cards in her name without telling her and then had the mailing address on those credit cards be to somewhere like his work so that she never saw the bills. Obviously this is an extreme case and I shouldn't have used it as an example...it's just that I found it quite disturbing.
Posted by: jennifer | July 6, 2006 9:03 AM
besides, as i indicated earlier, this post is me sorting out marriage in terms of me...which is stupid since there is apparently no prospect for a marriage proposal in my near future. obviously, i am delighted about you and edvin and i think it's so fantastic that i could just pee.
Posted by: jennifer | July 6, 2006 9:10 AM
Ah yes, I see.
Do you remember the person that I used to work with whose husband did that, but he also imbezzled a few hundred thousand dollars as well as using her name for things? Well that really sucked for her too. She had to leave the state until the court proceedings were over because she was worried about being implicated, but actually they ruled that she wasn't responsible for any of it because this guy was obviously a retard who had done it all by himself. However, I think that's a criminal case because identity theft can exist between spouses and if he took out cards solely in her name without her consent, I would think that he could be criminally liable.
However, you're right about the different states, Idaho actually is a common property state which makes it a little harder to separate property between spouses, which is sucky.
However, in many situations it can actually be advantageous to hold common property, as we've discussed, so whatever.
Also, I never thought I'd feel this way, but with Edvin I want us to be legally connected. I feel like we're teaming up against the world together.
Posted by: elizabeth | July 6, 2006 5:32 PM